Thursday, January 24, 2008

Europe not America

Yerp: The Final Countdown for the NHS?

This week sees the publication of a very important report by the Taxpayer’s Alliance on NHS performance compared with those of our European neighbours.

Up till now NHS debate has tended to be polarised between the “40 million uninsured” under USA healthcare system, and our “at least everyone has a right to equally (bad) treatment under the NHS”. In Britain we have tended to value equality and universal access very highly, at expense of quality of service both in terms of effectiveness and accessibility.

Now there are many major criticisms of the American healthcare system, but its key flaw is that insurance companies can pick and choose who they take on. In other words those who need healthcare cannot get insurance to pay for it.

So on Dr Rant we’ve done the comparison of NHS vs USA healthcare, because we’ve often been asked “What about the European systems?”, not least by that naughty young scamp DK. Well, up till now we haven’t had much information about these. But there is no longer an excuse for our ignorance on this following two important new publications. One is the Taxpayer’s Alliance new report “Wasting Lives” and the other is Nick Seddon’s important new book “Quite Like Heaven: options for the NHS in a consumer age.” (Civitas)

It is clear from these sources that our European neighbours have managed to achieve a combination of universal access, decent accessibility to doctors, treatments, and investigations, and effective (It works) medical (it is medicine after all) autonomy (doctor-patient interaction works). Fundamentally, it can be argued that the NHS is not as effective pound-for-pound as our European neighbours.

The NHS has suffered a “Triple Nationalisation” of funding, allocation and provision. In Europe they don’t have this.

We have a centralised bureaucratic monolith that is not giving anyone, be they doctors, patients, managers or politicians or taxpayers, what they want. It costs a lot yet no one gets value, or feels valued by this system. It’s a miserable monopoly.

The Europeans get round our problems, and the American’s problems in three ways.

They have compulsory social insurance- you have to pay, and the insurance companies have to take you. Certain basic provisions are mandatory. The government defines the mandatory minimum but it does not directly raise the money.

Secondly they have multiple providers of care. There is no national monopoly employer and there is the possibility for unsatisfied employees to move elsewhere and for dissatisfied customers to move elsewhere. This means hospitals are run by people who want to run hospitals, and to survive, they need to provide. In the UK neither the staff nor the patients can escape the system very much (NHS is >90% of UK healthcare provision- my option to set up privately and thrive is currently very limited). The patients can move from town to town, and see someone different, but it’s still the same old NHS in crumbling old workhouse hospitals, or gimcrack plainly flimsy investment newer hospitals.

Thirdly they have devolved regions and districts that make decision right for their areas. In the NHS our new PCT chief executive is not local, not representative of his area, and in fact is the DH’s man in Rantingshire. As David Nicholson, the NHS Chief Commisar, has said “The job of chief execs is to implement government policy, not to debate it.” What would happen if we brought health care back under local authority jurisdiction? It would certainly make local councils matter rather more.

(Privately a lot of DH civil servants are very unhappy with current government policy and are praying for a change.)

So in these reports we find several suggestions to get the UK away from its miserable dependence on the monolithic, hidebound and bureaucratic NHS.

Maybe in the end a combination of doctors and patients will finally put a rocket under current NHS management and both sides could free themselves to work well with each other. The expansion of NHS management, for no clear purpose, under current structures is picked up in both these reports. These reports certainly provide additional strength to our model of “The Management Spaceship”- the proposition that if we sent ALL the NHS managers and DH civil servants on a one way ticket to Mars, it would be so much the worse for the Martians. The rest of us would get on better, and would feel no need to send a rescue mission to bring any of them back.

Gordon Brown’s pouring of billions of pounds of taxpayer’s money into the NHS has been squandered. Like the Wizard of Oz, he stands exposed as a weak vascillating little man hiding behind a screen:

"Argument weak - Shout louder! Spend more!"

The publication of these two reports significantly increases our knowledge of available, effective options to achieve the desired goals of medical effectiveness, accessible services and universal coverage. They are to be welcomed for doing this.

We wonder what Devil's Kitchen will make of this. Hopefully he won't choke on his corn flakes (much).


And just as we have needed to get an Italian coach to run the England football team, we need to admit we can learn something from our European neighbours about how to run a health service. Bloody Hell. Those damn krauts, dagos, frogs, naked Volvo-drivers and watchmakers might know something we don’t.

Oh, and they don’t have polyclinics and noctors either. Strange that.

30 comments:

the a&e charge nurse said...

Yes, but Capello will not do any better than the enigmatic Swede (although Sven is working wonders at City).

When England won the world cup it was with an English manager, and God only knows why Notts Forest's enigmatic "big 'ead" wasn't given a crack of the whip.

Houllier brought his French ways to Liverpool and don't forget his life was saved by NHS surgeons when he suffered an aneurysm during the Leeds game at Anfield.

Rather like Houllier's Liverpool side (of the early noughties) the French health system is at risk of collapse - and it has been reported that the system is "unnecessarily complex and wasteful, rewarding doctors who see patients as often as possible, and encouraging them to overprescribe".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1130186,00.html

Certainly the French adore analgesics and antibiotics - in fact, according to some commentators French doctors prescribe four times more than their counterparts in England, Ireland, Italy or Greece (and six times more than Danish, Belgium and Kraut, sorry, German doctors).
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/05/14/MN52439.DTL

And talking about the Krauts, why can't we appoint Al Murray as the next health minister - he would have a thing or two to say about striking deutsch-doctors.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5207048.stm

heidikraut said...

I live in Germany and am delighted with my GP. And not only do we not have noctors or polyclinics, neither do we have surgeries open after 7.00pm or on Saturday morning - no one ( mean no one as in not a single person) complains about this (to the best of my knowledge.

Oldgit said...

In France we do have polyclinics but I suspect they are nothing like Patsy Hewitt’s vision. Ours have A&E and specialists in every department. My impression on my last visit was more of hotel than hospital. We certainly don’t have quacks. Nursing is an honourable and highly respected job.
However, I suspect Dr Rant and his colleagues wouldn’t be too pleased with 22€ a consultation. At my last GP visit it was a slow day. I was the only patient and I hung around a good 15 minutes chatting with my GP and her receptionist about the weather, Sarko and the smoking ban. Every time anyone goes out for a smoke they say “merci Sarko”
My only problem is I think I may need to change my GP, She thinks I drink to too much red wine, no more than two small glasses a day and not every day. She says it is bad for my gout. This is clearly nonsense.

Garth Marenghi said...

one of the best recent pieces on health care policy I've read, succinct and spot on

the a&e charge nurse said...

No 'noctors' in Germany - are you sure about that Heidi ?

According to Kerstin Blum (2006) several projects have been introduced in rural areas - "nurse practitioners check on patients on behalf of their primary care physicians".
These schemes are being driven by those localities "with a comparitively small number (of primary care physicians)" - mainly in Eastern Germany.

Germany is not alone though, 'noctors' work in the States (where the role was initially defined in paediatric intensive care 40yrs ago) , Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Holland, Sweden, and of course, to the great chagrin of doctors here, the UK.

From what I can tell though it is the rest of Europe that is following developments in the UK rather than vice-versa - which is a slight paradox given how dangerous these self deluded noctors are meant to be.

Dr Blue said...

Noctors are dangerous when they work separately from doctors, or if people push them as a cheap replacement for doctors.

Extended role nursing, additional help, working with doctors works well.

heidi said...

I can only speak for the city that I live in and our practice Charge Nurse - although I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek about it. What you refer to in the rural areas sounds a bit like the district nurse system that used to exist in the UK. Maybe it still does exist, I don't know.

Sam said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7206766.stm

Devil's Kitchen said...

Yes, well done, Dr Rant! You're getting there, my saaaaaan!

DK

Dr Pink said...

It always amuses me to hear nurses talk about noctors in the US, Canada and so on.

If you actually go to the US and Canada to look at noctor use, they are such a rarity that they get into the journals quite easily.

The level of noctor use here is absolutely huge compared with US/Canada.

the a&e charge nurse said...

The proportion of NPs working in Scotland constitute a mere 3.2% of the workforce.
http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/27539/nurse_specialists_2006.pdf

Part of the NP role involves management and education, so the clinical component when weighted against the sum total of nursing activity (including what the other 96.8% get up to) is actually pretty modest.

The picture south of Hadrians wall is similar (certainly involving well less than 5% of the total workforce) - I'm searching for the reference.

The vast majority of NPs work under the watchful eye of a consultant, such as the ENPs in A&E - we just provide a few extras, and sometimes it's hard to understand why doctors get so defensive (notwithstanding all the crap associated with the EWTD and MTAS).
On the shop floor we all seem to get on really well, but I appreciate the blogsphere works as a confessional, and people can really say what's on their mind.

I'm sure the quack problem, at least to a certain extent is one of perception rather than reality, but I do realise it remains something of a sore point.

Dr Rant said...

Cheers DK.

I still think the NHS wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't run by fuckwits, but we need a system where the fuckwits have less influence.

Modern realities eh?

Anonymous said...

wow your blog is quite a significant shift of position

well done

welcome out of the dark ages

good to see u move on

getting closer

ps the nhs just fucked up again big time with my family today, if i could get any madder with them i would

no one

Anonymous said...

It appears the British Government has paid for "advice" from a very suspect American insurance company.

The demise of the welfare system and the British NHS will be extremely financially beneficial to this very troubled American HQ organization.

As a Doctor have you "cracked" yet for a Unum inspired "Hungry Vulture Award?"

http://www.stopunum.com/managing-doctors-poor-performance-a-hard-nut-to-crack/

"Collusion is also easier to defend if one party gains nothing from the encounter – but when the doctor reaps a rich reward in fees, it is harder to claim a moral paternalistic high ground." Professor Simon Wessely in Unum’s UK CMO Report, 2007

http://www.stopunum.com/british-sicko-coming-soon-or-is-it-here-already/
http://www.stopunum.com/the-american-sicko-system/
http://www.stopunum.com/unum-study-identifying-biographical-and-bio-psychosocial-risk-factors-amongst-under-performing-doctors/
http://www.stopunum.com/pimps-whores/
http://www.stopunum.com/american-style-shock-awe-arrives-in-the-u-k/

It certainly looks like one very sick plan...

http://www.stopunum.com/a-sicko-12-step-rehab-programme/

When did some ex DWP employees, now employed by the "outlaw" branded Unum Corporation, get to set "management policy" and "job evaluation techniques" using a non-medical Unum developed "bio-psycho-social" model to measure the "work performance" of professional NHS British Medical Consultants and Doctors?

http://www.stopunum.com/open-letter-to-all-lords-and-mp-s-houses-of-parliament-london/
http://www.stopunum.com/a-very-sick-game-over-unum/

No wonder the NHS is in such a big mess right now!

Anonymous said...

james whale on talksport ranting on about GPs right now u should listen

James, Civitas said...

A good piece of work if I might say so!! I'm so glad you are injecting an element of sense into this debate; far too often as soon as I mention other methods of funding that divorce the purse strings from this meddling government to give doctors, nurses, patients - the whole system - autonomy, you're immediately called 'right-wing', an apologist for private healthcare, killing the poor etc...because the only other health system people are really aware of is that in the US.

The fact is that other European systems work far better - they not only offer more universal and more comprehensive health care than the NHS, but also provide a much higher standard of care. We've actually done a whole series of briefings looking at how health care is provided in European countries and what we might learn; you can find them
here. The problem is getting anyone to listen - any ideas?!!

Dr Rant said...

Hello James

Consumerism is a potential disaster if left unchecked, and empowering the patient too much means that doctors will be swapping coercion from politicians and managers for coercion from 'customers'. The wrong decisions will be taken more often.

Health 'customers' are not always right, neither are doctors - but at least we have knowledge. What you 'want' from a healthcare system is astonishing frequently not what you 'need'.

What we must try to protect at all costs is the independence of medical practitioners to make the right decisions. There must be an element of utilitarian philosophy enshrined also, otherwise the system will bankrupt itself (like France).

As a patient I would prefer rationing to be limited, and the rationing not to be done by bean-counters or insurance companies with shareholders. As GPs we have aways had limited resources, and we have always had to try to balance the needs of the individual with the needs of the other 1999 patients for whom we are each responsible.

We are open to any system that protects and promotes the interests of all without pandering to the whims of a few.

the a&e charge nurse said...

James - you are right about the pavlovian response from NHS aherents (I'm a prime example).

I really enjoyed reading the CIVITAS papers you link to - but I can see at least x3 major problems;

[1] NHS staff have been trying to do their best in a climate of almost permanent 'reform' and 'modernisation' - many of us feel like we are being crushed under a mountain of centrally issued diktats/targets, and the thought of more change (without tangible benefits) fills us with absolute dread.

[2] Genuine trust (between the various factions) has become a rare commodity - look at the latest deal secured by a notorious, and much loathed ex-NuLab health minister.
And what about the dire consequences of MTAS(doctors-shafting-doctors syndrome).
Doctors fear quacks, while nurses accuse doctors of failing to grasp the day to day realities of life on the ward, see;
http://militantmedicalnurse.blogspot.com/

[3] Recent 'de-nationalisation' of health care (in the sphere of dentistry) has resulted in numerous scandels, and various campaigns to obtain justice after bodged work.

I don't think the majority of NHS staff would have any problem with wrestling control away from the DoH providing the founding NHS principles could still be preserved.

My fear would be that the nations health could end up in the hands of the fat cats, especially given NuLabs fixation with all things American - as one of the CIVITAS reports concludes, althought some of the clinical outcomes (thinking about avoidable mortality) are unacceptable, it wouldn't take that much to put them right, suggesting that the NHS is not all gloom and doom.

Anonymous said...

re "promotes the interests of all without pandering to the whims of a few."

I'm in favour of a system that promotes the interests of THE PATIENTS ABOVE ALL ELSE without pandering to the whims of a few (the politicians, the doctors, the managers etc)

Give the patients control of the money, it is their money after all, docs are no more in a position to dictate to patients than politicians and mandarins

its gonna happen one way or another youd better get ready for it

Dr Blue said...

The difficulty anonymous is that one patient could demand the whole of GNP and more spent on their healthcare.

I agree direct contracting/payment between GPs and patients would be sensible, and cut out the government as proxy customer.

But there's a limit to how much any one patient can demand before it becomes unreasonable. (Expensive, valueless,no medical benefit, taking resources away from others)

Funny Pseudonym said...

Anyone else read this months BMJ article about the new healthcare system in Taiwan?

Vey impressive in many way, and at only 6% of GNP!

I know a fair bit about other european systems from livingin those countries but this was a whole new game...and the time frame, wow!

Have a look Rant team, might be a contender for the NHS replacment.

Dr Blue said...

NHS replacement
- I agree. NHS is sixty this year, looking a bit long in the tooth, ready for retirement- let it go gracefully etc.

Or should we rant, rant, the dying of the light?

jayann said...

Taiwan has a single-payer national insurance system (with co-pays of something like 1 dollar 50). It's based on Medicare, it's impressed some US people a lot (the author of the BMJ piece is from the US). I couldn't get the whole BMJ article but here's another relevant piece

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ian_williams/2007/10/taiwan_gets_healthy.html

jayann said...

the French health system is at risk of collapse

Yes. I read they were thinking of introducing the British GP-as-gateway system.

All the countries compared with Britain in this 'survey/study' -- which looks remarkably like a truncated version of another study that includes the US and ranks that last, something the TaxPayers Alliance might not want to do... -- have more doctors per head than the UK and pay doctors less, often, significantly less. (Hence the relative lack of noctors?)

The other study is summarised here:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=640980

Nurse Anne said...

Wow, Dr. Pink.

I saw a lot more "noctors" when I lived in the USA. I don't think I have met one yet in Britain. Our family doctors all had NP's on staff and there were lots of NP's and PA's in the ER. As a matter of fact if you go into the ER there for something minor, you will probably see a physician's assistant.

Funny Pseudonym said...

Well ok not replacement but the future of the NHS then?

If it stands up to the hype i have been reading it seems like a good idea.

At any rate the system in Taiwan looks much like the NHS, a compulsory contribution to the state with it covering everyone regardless of ability to pay.
I was more impressed with the efficiency of the administration. I would like to see some outcomes and then we can dream about what it would be like with that streamlined system pls the expertise and funds that go into the NHS.

Dr Pink said...

Re: Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants in the US.

The difference between noctors in the UK and NPs and PAs in the US is that they are being deployed in roles that allow them to practice without direct physician oversight.

So, the PA/NP that you see in the US will have your chart reviewed by a staff physician. Where I worked, this was done before the patient left the department.

However, an NP in the UK can work totally autonomously without any physician input or review of their cases.

That is, to my knowledge, rare in North America. It is possible this has changed since I was last there with the influence of cost-cutting HMOs.

(Virtually all GPs in the UK have Practice Nurses who perform chronic disease management monitoring roles).

the a&e charge nurse said...

Dr Pink - many doctors (including the Rants) have argued that the general public should exercise a certain amount of diagnostic acumen before troubling a doctor each time they experience an ache, pain, or uncomplicated injury (for the very good reason there is little wrong most of the time).

But of course, Wanless has demonstrated that demand NEVER lets up, and not suprisingly doctors tell us they do not always have enough time to manage those patients most in need their expertise: patients with cancer, multiple pathologies, mental health issues, etc, etc - this seems to apply equally to both primary and secondary care settings.

My own view is that todays quacks are not very different from the senior nurses of yester-year who sorted stuff out with a nod and a wink from the big boss (i.e. GP or consultant) - only they hadn't developed a penchant for pretentious, and embarrasing job titles.

It might suprise you Dr Pink but there are only 3,196 members of the Nurse Practitoners Association, the overwhelming majority are chicks in their mid-40's and have on average 5-6yrs quack experience (having worked for many years in a non-quack capacity to begin with).
http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/78764/003183.pdf

I can't help thinking that worrying about this cohort of grey haired wannabe's is a bit like an elephant worrying about an ant, or a rather ill-tempered mouse.

The main reason that there hasn't been a blood bath is that they (the quacks) are dealing with low level stuff most of the time and soon involve a doc if they are worried about anything (well what did you expect from the fuss-pots ?) - the research evidence, gathered over the last decade, shows by and large that they are pretty competent most of the time.

Let's put it this way, if the 3,000 quacks all failed to turn up to work tomorrow, who'd notice ?
And would the 130,000 docs (inc 35,000 GP's) actually be any happier, especially since you lot would have a few thousand extra (relatively well) patients to sort out ?

I understand medical objections to ageing second raters strutting round the hospital or GP surgery, but I have yet to see any evidence (beyond anecdote) that they are actually a danger to patients.

Dr Pink said...

I agree with (almost) everything you say, A&EC.

The first problem is that doctors are absolutely convinced that New Labour want's to destroy the medical profession.

I happen to think we are right.

The second problem is that everywhere we look there are examples of noctors being given doctor's jobs and roles.

The third problem is that almost every doctor you speak to has a horror story about a noctor. Sure, we all have horror stories about other doctors too, but it is RELATIVE risk.

The forth problem is that 'by and large they are safe' is not good enough, and anything that makes medicine less safe rather than more safe is not good enough.

The fifth problem is that there is not a shortage of doctors any more. There is now medical unemployment. What there is is a shortage of posts for doctors. So the old 'doctors are too busy' line is just not going to cut it.

The sixth problem is that we now have so many examples of doctors being made to do basic tasks while noctors do the more complex stuff. This is clearly not a good idea.

The seventh problem is oversight. The US model of senior physician oversight (you can't buy anything medical in the US without a physician's signature) gives much more protection than the UK's version of a few weeks training and off you go,

oldgit said...

I need to correct a comment I made above about polyclinics in France. I said that polyclinics have A&E facilities in fact, what I saw,was an "urgent treatment" department. As I understand it victims of accidents brought in by the "Pompier", paramedics but a branch of the fire service, are treated at state hospital A&E departments.
Sorry for any confusion.