I've already blogged about the 'cancer co-payment' scandal. Jayann's objected in the comment's section that this terrible policy is no different than paying for a knee op. But it is different, because if you chose not to have a private knee op, you will still get an NHS one eventually. Furthermore, Dr Rant recently paid for an MRI scan of his knee during his NHS treatment so he could get back to his patients faster. No one suggested that I would have to then have a private op because I'd had a private MRI scan, and neither should they have. So the idea that you can draw a parallel is total bollocks.
No, I agree with DK in one of his best medical posts ever when he says:
This woman has spent her entire working life paying National Insurance which, I might remind you, is supposed to pay for medical treatment (amongst other things). It isn't your money to withhold, you cunts; it is her money that the government was supposed to invest in an insurance fund.
However, Crippen then pointed us in the direction of this post by the excellent Ministry of Truth. MoT spends a very long post suggesting first that the main story should not be people who want to co-pay being denied treatment, but the peddlers who sell the stuff.
Now, no fan of quacks and peddlers of false hopes is Dr Rant. However, that was not the main point of this story at all. And compared with the magnet-sellers, I'd take my chances that £17k on a drug that has a reasonable chance of buying me an extra 150 days of life. That's not snake oil. Snake oil is when you pay £17k for a drug that has no chance of helping you at all. There was some hint that the treatment being 'denied' was in fact combination treatment that would not have been given without the private drug, but this was unclear, only mentioned in passing. I would have liked to have heard more about that.
There is more, but not about the bit I thought was interesting. Instead MoT went on to have a go at Doctors For Reform. I was around when DfR were formed. I wasn't actually involved in setting it up, and I don't know the people involved in setting it up personally, but I remember their early flyers.
The fact that the people setting this up are largely entrepreneurs who have private as well as NHS business interests is hardly sinister. It is to be expected. Who else has the time and money to do this kind of good work? It is hardly sinister that they come from a range of politically active backgrounds either (unless you think that not having a New Labour parliamentary candidate in your group makes you automatically suspect).
MoT also mis-represents DfR's stance on the NHS. It is hardly a surprise that Doctors for Reform are a group of doctors who want the NHS to be reformed. You hardly need to by V for Vendetta with a google-map to work that out from their title. However, the reform they are aiming for is a European-style mandatory insurance system, not a US-style insurance system that MoT suggests they are looking for. I know, because they told me. To link DfR to US health insurance is a strawman fallacy. MoT should have dug deeper and looked at the DfR website:
What is social insurance?
Social insurance is the type of health system used in countries such as France, Germany and Switzerland. The systems differ but all have the same key characteristics. All citizens receive health insurance in return for contributions usually made from salaries or, in the case of the worst off (in some countries) from taxation. Insurance cover is guaranteed and everyone pays a fair price. Standards of healthcare in these countries are higher than in Britain.
“Social health insurance systems tend to be associated with high levels of satisfaction in the population. The sources of this satisfaction are interesting, including a combination of solidarity and transparency. To some extent, social health insurance may make every patient a private patient” (Funding health care: options for Europe, LSE authors, European Observatory on Healthcare Systems, Open University Press).
Personally, I think the NHS does not need that kind of reform. It simply needs to be cut free from the management and DoH dross that paralyses and corrupts it, but I can see where DfR are coming from. The Swiss system in particular has a lot to recommend it (and is not bankrupt and paralyzed by repeated strikes the way the French, and to a lesser extent, the German systems are). [At least two members of the Dr Rant team have given donations to DfR because they believe that such a social insurance system is the best way forward - Ed.]
Perhaps I am wrong, but I think MoT has well and truly missed the point. Now, Dr Rant gets things wrong from time to time, exaggerates, swears a lot. But when you call yourself 'Dr Rant', you kind of imply that is what you are going to get. When you call yourself 'Ministry of Truth' you don't give yourself much leeway. You need to get it right.
I'm disappointed.










24 comments:
Well put Dr. Rant. Fundamentally the NHS needs a change in funding, German system would make the most sense. Needs to be relieved of it's political football status, and it needs appropriate levels of competition.
Can't believe it!
NIKU and Dr Rant agree on something!
Never thought I'd see the day.
Long may it continue.
I must admit my first reaction (when the co-payment stories began to emerge) was lots of harumphing, followed by a few ineffectual episodes of tub thumping - an open and shut case of the little guy being shat on by a few Kafkaesque bureaucrats, I thought.
How dare these Nu-Lab bastards terrorise tax paying citizens who are suffereing with a terminal disease - all very simple really, good vs bad, moral vs immoral, etc, etc.
But I must admit Unity (at MoT) has produced x2 fascinating posts, and they have really got me thinking.
How long will it be before some machievellian politico, thinks: 'co-payments', BINGO - why on earth didn't we think of this little scheme sooner ?
Patients willing to pay £17,000 a-pop for a few more disease ridden months of life (thinks the politico rubbing his/her chin) - now, how much mileage can we squeeze out of that idea if we can promise 1yr, 2yrs, hell even 3yrs of life, say....... at a mere £10,000 a-pop (at least until the idea is established, then obviously we can bump up payments at above inflationary rates) ?
Yes, co-payments, I'm suprised Johno missed such a golden opportunity.
Think about it Mr Health Secretary, 'top-ups' will make you friends with dying cancer patients, friends with big pharma, and friends with the tax man - it's a win-win situation, surely ?
All bit far fetched, perhaps ?
Well, maybe, but I wouldn't put it past some evil bastard in the DoH to be nurturing similar dark thoughts - after all. who can we really trust in these cash strapped times ?
Jayann, it seems you might have been right all along.
Thank you, a & e charge nurse.
I have experience of both the Swiss and the German health systems. Essentially the 'bottom-line' aspect of the Swiss insurance system- everyone is entitled to essential treatment and no insurance company can refuse them - is great. The system for topping-up/co-payment seems to work. There are anomalies within the Swiss system but essentially it works. If you are on a basic system and you want the non-generic then you can have it - but you pay for it. Want a private room? Fine, empty your wallet blah blah. I had to use the basic system with a private top-up (because of anomalies with cantonal boundaries - too dull to go into). To keep my premiums relatively low (about £350 per month) I elected to pay the first £2000 of treatment myself. Because I'm fit and healthy I never spent enough to make a claim on my insurance which didn't stop the fuckers putting my insurance up each year - it was basically a gynaecological tax. Got ovaries and breasts, Madam? They're bound to go wrong at some point - cough up the dosh.
The German system is also fantastic - we fucking well pay for it. Not only do we pay a significant amount of money in insurance we also pay so much fucking tax that even the socialists weep. But we have a brilliant system. However, we have almost as many unemployed doctors as the UK is about to have. I have no idea what that has to do with it either, but just thought I'd mention it.
On a totally unrelated note, the spam capcha is 'poxy'. I wait for the day that it's 'cunt'
Well why not A&E? After all, they've already got it well established with NHS dental treatment.
Even as an NHS patient you need a fucking mortgage to visit the dentist these days.
Worse: I live in a town of over 300K people - there is only one dentist taking on new NHS patients, and there's a waiting list of several months to get taken on his books. And he's two bus-rides away from where I live.
Thatcher introduced this destruction of NHS dental services, but Nullabor promised in 97 that they would put it right again. Instead they have intensified it.
They've done this in every sphere of life - to such an extent that their agenda for Britain is becoming plain to see. The only question remaining is how much destruction can they wreak in the two years before they become an ex political party?
A quick glance at today’s
New York Times, will give us an idea that all is not well in the land of plenty. Are we really going to want to head that way? The French system works only because there is less micromanagement. My friend there just tops up with private insurance. She knows exactly the amount she needs to pay per year. The doctors there never seemed to worry about using the latest treatments. In one Paris Mental Hospital that my old hospital used to TWIN with, the top manager is still a psychiatrist and is still called the Medical Superintendent. No sense of shifting products like a supermarket at all. I suspect though in the poorer crowded area of Paris and other big cities the story may not be the same but I have not really heard much about that.
The problem is how can we get back to a sensible system especially when the BMA are now run by people with a different motive: money when they leave the BMA. One day Consultants too will leave the NHS and we will be back to the old days and perhaps Medical School Hospitals will have to treat the poor in return for allowing them to train medical students. But then why do they need that. All you need are computer generated patients and ability to click the right answers.
Imagine your child after A level, “ My friend got into King’s to do Medicine, she had 2Cs and a D.” Your child with 3 super As is looking to do voluntary work in Kenya.
The Cockroach Catcher
I suspect though in the poorer crowded area of Paris and other big cities the story may not be the same
certainly there've been problems of unequal access to medical care in France; this measure is an attempt to remedy that
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france_159/label-france_2554/label-france-issues_2555/label-france-no.-42_4200/society-and-environment_4237/towards-fairer-access-to-health-care_6480.html
Oh, I know all about dentistry, Sir Henry.
Over £500 for a single crown !!
I thought the bloody dentist had mistaken a small enamelled prosthetic for the ornate gold object that sits on the Queens head.........but no, I had to choose between a black hole in my mouth, or a black hole in my wallet, gah.
Thanks Jayann. We do need to look at France to find a solution. After all they are rated by WHO as having the best Health Care system in the world. There is a limit though and their recent change for Brits living there is just one such example.
The Cockroach Catcher
Rant:
I don't see that I missed any point's here, it just a follow-up post plus the discussion in comments to cover all the relevant ground of what is a horrifically complex issue once you dig into it.
I also don't see that I'm necessarily misrepresenting DfR's position as I don't recall saying that they favour any one type of funding system over another, I simply noted that two of its steering group members appear to have a political agenda over and above any professional opinions they might hold.
As for the social insurance model, I'm working through a couple of evaluations of the main European systems at the moment and will get back to on that. Suffice to say for now that I think it doubtful that any of those systems could be transplanted to the UK with out major difficulties and long lead-time/transition period and even then what we'd most likely end up with here - given that parliament is infested with a shower of shites on both sides of the chamber - would be much closer to the US system than it would to any of the European ones, especially the Swiss system.
am ang zhang, yes I agree. The French system will change, it can't continue to offer what it does now, yet it may still have some lessons for us. (Switzerland may have more.)
I do have something of a problem with transferring policies without taking the full circumstances into account. The current NHS problems can't any longer plausibly be blamed on lack of funding and may be related to/may reflect growing socio-economic inequality here. (There are some very scary stats on life expectancy after 65, by social class, in London.)
Dr Rant, just to say I saw your piece in the new remedy magazine, gosh if I'd know you were going to be protesting naked in London I would have come down and joined you rather than go to the fully clothed Glasgow march!
Great post
But Unity's excellent article is still strong. It's really about vested interests and the declaration of same.
I agree we need to change NHS economics, but we all need to come to the table with clean hands.
No brown envelopes. No "honoraria"
John
One of the patients whose case has been cited, who is suing, lives in Wales (so I know a bit more about it). The 'NHS treatment' his Trust refused is this: while he's buying and taking the drug they won't fund, he also has to pay for the scans and blood tests that are part of the private drug treatment. The unfairness in his case, I would argue -- and I think he has too -- is that a woman with the same condition got her Trust to fund the drug.
unity, the fact that there isn't a functioning payer system within the NHS or DofH structure would, to me, argue against american or swiss style funding system being chosen by our fearless leaders. The German and French system is relatively simple when compared to the US with regards to how payments are made to providers. In the US 25% of all medical costs are attributable to the payment mechanisms.
I would agree that both sides of the house are relatively ineffective but think the complexity of the system they would have to create around an ICD based system would keep them from going this direction.
The worst of all worlds would be to force an american style system on an unprepared NHS. But I guess I wouldn't put it past them.
Dr Rant naked?
Link please!
objected in the comment's section that this terrible policy is no different than paying for a knee op.
no I didn't. You silly runt.
Niku:
It isn't that simple, I'm afraid.
The fundamental problem facing all modern healthcare systems is that they are victims of their own past successes.
To put it harshly we don't, in Western society, kill off anything like as many old people as we need to to make the existing systems sustainable and we don't kill them off anything like quickly enough or efficiently enough.
Instead of keeping the numbers to manageable level by killing people off with nice efficient diseases like dear old pneumonia, we now have ever increasing numbers of people checking out by way of long-term degenerative conditions or simply old age, the care for which is both labour intensive and expensive and, to put the icing on the cake, most of the people in such situations are too poor to meet the cost of the care they need.
Ultimately, that's kicker here - the people with the greatest need for sustained healthcare are the least profitable - and that's as true in France or Germany as it is here as you'll find if you dig past the hype about social insurance schemes and look at what's actually going on and how things are developing.
Staying on the harsh theme, there's nothing too much wrong with any healthcare system in Western Europe that couldn't be fixed pretty quickly by a gold old fashioned flu pandemic.
Let me give you three facts to chew on here.
1) At the present time the annual cost of social protection for older people alone - and that's pensions, welfare benefits and tax credits and a bit of the social care stuff, is about £4-5 billion more than the Treasury's annual take in income tax.
2) National insurance contributions would cover only 70% of current NHS expenditure if every single penny collected in NI was handed over to the NHS without taking anything out for pensions.
3) In the 1970's, before the introduction of 'market' reforms, the NHS spent around 5-6% of annual budget on management and administration. Today, most PCTs and NHS trusts are delighted if they can peg that to 12% - so who say that introducing markets reduces costs and improves efficiency.
One of the main benefits of the social insurance scheme is that it will take doctors, nurses and other staff off the public payroll thus relieving the taxpayer of the unsustainable future costs of the NHS pension scheme.
National Insurance and Govt policy is obviously just the same as how businesses have to survive..
I subscribed to a Crisco Xmas hamper for 12 months cos I know I'm going to be hungry at Xmas.
There was a whole heap of food on offer and I was looking forward to it all. However, when I called just before Xmas to plan my festive season they said that there were some changes to the contents - due to economic reasons - and I wasn't going to get exactly what they'd promised 12 months ago.
Apparently they were perfectly entitled to do so as it was part of the conditions that they changed only 6 months after I'd taken the plan with them. They now included clauses such as "If food became more expensive or the quality improved, thus increasing the overall cost, we will just not include the items from the hamper and make it not as good as we said it would be".
The fact they changed the conditions after I subscribed isn't a problem either, of course. I understand business has to do this in order to keep making the most profit.
Crisco's work hard every year for every customer in this way.
So, knowing it wasn't going to be enough to feed me anymore I accepted it and said 'ok, I'll just go buy the extra stuff somewhere else to supplement your hamper since you won't provide it for me - even tho I paid for it originally and you changed the rules half way through. It's ok.'
... and they said -
"If you can afford to buy something extra now from somewhere else - then we're not going to give you your hamper at all you greedy fat bastard. Either eat our shitty measly food and go hungry or fuck off or we'll keep your money and your food."
Is that about it?
Is that about it?
No.
Is that about it?
Yep.
Dr Pink-
Remedy Uk Magazine online
http://www.rukmag.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77&Itemid=86
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