Comments on Dr Rant: The Dr Rant Trollonymous Competition

fuck meim amazed that anyone would bother trying t...

2008-05-14T19:01:00.000+01:00

fuck me

im amazed that anyone would bother trying to impersonate me

such obvious crap some of this recent stuff

im surprized you imagine i would stoop to such bollocks

been busy, not been posting, and most especially not been posting this recent bollocks

today my first look back at this site in ages

imposter fuck off you cunt

drs rants and especially dr blue who i know is pretty close to my own views im surprized you fallen for such obvious fake

no one

the real no one

mmm interesting looks like there is indeed a "no o...

2008-05-14T18:18:00.000+01:00

mmm interesting looks like there is indeed a "no one" imposter

dont know what to make of it

none of the comments in this thread prior to may 14th were made by the real "no one"

for what its worth dr crippen knows the real name of the real "no one" so real id would be easy to prove

actually the real "no one" didnt make some of the ...

2008-05-14T18:04:00.000+01:00

actually the real "no one" didnt make some of the anon comments you attribute to him

and it looks like the anon poster didnt claim to be "no one" either

the real "no one" has never said "i pay your wages" either

im fairly close to exactly what the real "no one" has said and posted, and he has been a bit busy working for a living recently, and not really had time to notice this anti "no one" stuff

im sure he would smile it all off though

TROLL WARNING The Troll identified as 'ANON' o...

2008-05-12T13:36:00.000+01:00

**TROLL WARNING**

The Troll identified as 'ANON' or 'NO-ONE' is believed to be a professional Rent-A-Troll.

WE NOW RECOMMEND THAT ALL READERS SYSTEMATICALLY IGNORE HIM.

The No-One professional troll is being deployed against a range of blogs critical of New Labour NHS privatisation policy. Employing professional trolls to damage a blog's message is increasingly common.

The No-One troll's modus operandi is to mimic a contrarian troll.

We suspect he may try to mutate into a bitter troll and/or a vulgar troll now that he has been identified.

We don't know who The No-One Troll's Employer is, but we think it is just the kind of thing New Labour would do.

There are technical limits to tracking and blocking trolls through blogger, but we are looking at our options.

**This automated anti-troll message will be repeated regularly**

The winner of the Trollonymous Trollathon has now ...

2008-05-12T13:35:00.000+01:00

The winner of the Trollonymous Trollathon has now been announced!

From The definitive guide to Trolls:The Contrarian...

2008-05-11T22:34:00.000+01:00

From The definitive guide to Trolls:

The Contrarian Troll. Contrarian Trolls frequent boards whose predominant opinions are contrary to their own. A forum dominated by those who support firearms and knife rights, for example, will invariably be visited by Contrarian Trolls espousing their beliefs in the benefits of gun control. It is important to distinguish between dissenters and actual Contrarian Trolls, however; the Contrarian is not categorized as a troll because of his or her dissenting opinions, but due to the manner in which he or she behaves:

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number One: The most important indicator of a poster's Contrarian Troll status is his constant use of subtle and not-so-subtle insults, a technique intended to make people angry. Contrarians will resist the urge to be insulting at first, but as their post count increases, they become more and more abusive of those with whom they disagree. Most often they initiate the insults in the course of what has been a civil, if heated, debate to that point.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you."

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators below). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. The Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice – all the while continuing to respond to them.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Six: One distinctive mark of Contrarian Trolls is that every thread in which they dissent quickly devolves into a debate about who is trolling whom. In the course of such a debate the Contrarian will display many of the other Warning Signs mentioned above.

The Bitter Troll. Bitter Trolls are a curious cross-species. They can be trolls of any breed in their larval stages, but become Bitters after their previous activities are seen for what they were. What sets these trolls apart from other classifications is their behavior after they have been spotted and labeled as trolls. Angry, frustrated, and resentful about being "outed," the Bitter Troll will wage a campaign of indignant complaints intended to focus attention away from the troll and on whomever is responsible for identifying the creature. Often, a troll mutates into a Bitter just prior to becoming a Vulgar.

The Vulgar Troll. These, the crudest of all trolls, make no attempt to hide their species. Often, they make racist comments, or they may post porn and other spam. Vulgars usually confine their comments merely to primitive, profane, off-topic observations. When you log into the Really Profound Serious Philosophical Discussions board and see the post, "I smell my farts," you've spotted the Vulgar Troll. Other species of troll sometimes revert to this form when cornered.

So, Trollonymous should start talking about his own farts any time now....

Two other possibilities:No-One may in fact be an '...

2008-05-11T17:47:00.000+01:00

Two other possibilities:

No-One may in fact be an 'obsessive' troll. The fact that he always goes on about the same general topics would fit with this.

Presumably, if he is obsessive-compulsive then this competition is slowly ruining his life as he will be compelled to spend more and more time posting here while his job/wife/dog go out the window.

Alternatively, right wing think tanks are reported to employ people to 'troll' progressive blogs to damage them as much as possible.

If No-One were cyclothymic or obsessive-compulsive, you would expect his posts to occur at strange times of the night. His posts all seem to occur during office hours.

A real troll would post outside office hours too.

Dear Anonymous,Thanks for your reply - I actually ...

2008-05-11T17:32:00.000+01:00

Dear Anonymous,

Thanks for your reply - I actually think you have put your finger on something and i dont think you are a completely malicious troll as some others are making out.

However, you are almost completely 180 degrees wrong in the things that you say - mainly I suspect because you don't have an idea about how things actually work in the NHS. I will address your point - not that I think you will change your mind but what the Hell? - apologies for the long post..

Firstly,

"The fact that I am a patient and a taxpayer is [relevant]".

Yes but don't forget we are all taxpayers and patients too - yet YOUR job is relevant because you spend a lot of time on here insulting me and my colleagues for adding to the burden of human misery. Although this is an internet forum this REALLY REALLy irks me - I am sitting here at 4pm on the ward computer eating my lunchtime sandwich posting this - I started at 8.30 and wont be finished till 9.30 pm seeing patients so who are you to tell me I am taking advantage? I have dedicated my life to looking after sick people - I would be interested to know what you do that gives you the right to criticise me - thats why its relevant.

"This should not be a mud slinging match based on where or who you are employed by..."

Well its hardly as though we are on your blog criticising you is it? You have come on here throwing mud and the say you dont want a mud slinging match.

"You on the other hand have made the choice to work in a vocation funded by the state and are therefore answerable, whether you like it or not, to the people who pay your wages (taxpayers) and those who use your services (patients)."

Wrong. My vocation is not "funded by the state" any more than the construction industry who build the hospitals. Most doctors - General Practitioners - are independent contractors who are self employed and who are providing contracted work for primary care services. Some hospital doctors take their salary from the Government but even many of these are academioc appointments funded by universities. If the Government has a contract to provide medical services to patients thats fine but the Government doesnt own me any more than it does you. Of course the Government should get value for money and it does - as i shall explain below.

"Since you may well be a doctor I have to see in the future, I have every right to know as much about you as is necessary for me to make an informed decision bout MY healthcare."

Obviously, it depends on what information you need to make an "informed" decision. If you want to know if i am qualified to do your operation - absolutely. If you are arguing that you need to know my GCSE and A-level results before you decide I am competent then you DONT need to know (straight As by the way) - it all depends on where you draw the line.

"The thing that upsets me and many others increasingly, is your professions almost rabid fight against scrutiny, measurement, transparency and accountability."

What is it you want to scrutinise / measure? What is it you want me to be "transparent" about? Do you think we have secret meetings in undisclosed locations and speak to each other in code?

"The Dr. Rant site is the bastion of this type of attitude and portrays your profession in the very light that you say we should not see you in, that of an unreformed mob of elitist doctors who only care about hiding outcomes and data from the patient so that they remain ignorant and that you have all the control."

The clue is in the title - this is not the BMA forum, it is actually called Dr. RANT - ie an amusing rant about the idiocy of New Labour and other reformist arrivistes who have no comprehension what they are trying to foist on the Great British Public. As for the outcomes and data you are talking about - its all in the most public forum there is - if you want to find out about your treatment or procedure all the data is on the internet - hundreds of publications updated EVERY DAY and available to you. Google PubMed. You see your argument completely falls flat on its face here. You say Medicine doesnt change and that its conservative and reactionary but my profession has utterly changed the way patients are treated and it contuinues to change at a white hot pace with new data, treatments and evidence every day. You are not brave enough to tell us what you do for a living but I bet its pretty much the same way you were doing things twenty years ago - perhaps with the exception of the internet.

"..avoid the reforms that are needed with respect to transparency and accountability, we die."

I would be very interested to know what great changes you have in mind that will solve this huge problem of Doctors secretly bumping off their patients? If you are talking about mortality figures and suchlike they are far too crude a measure to tell you anything. The best surgeons have the highest mortality figures since they take on the riskiest and most complex cases that the other surgeons are unable to deal with. It would be like trying to compare formula one cars on how expensive they are. Of course the direct consequence as you "increase accountability" is that doctors and surgeons will change their practice to produce the best figures rather than produce the best outcomes for their patients. Is that what you want?

".. most of all I am tired of doctors who are unable to accept any of the blame for the current state of the health system when in fact, you are its leaders."

Not a problem - let us run things the way we want to and we will be happy to shoulder the blame and whatever criticism you have. The problem is you want the power to run things but not the responsibility.

"From you through notes, orders and prescriptions flow 70% of the things done by NHS staff."

OK so let me give you an example. I have to cover ENT emergencies at night despite not having ENT training (thanks to the training reforms dreamt up by people like you) - the reason I have to cover them is because the local powers that be dont want to fund a specialist ENT doctor to see the emergencies to save (your) money. Now if someone gets brought in at 2am with a haemorrhagic nosebleed your answer is that its MY fault and that we have a "lack of accountability". Yes 70% of the prescriptions etc come from us but we are making the best of a failing system. Where is YOUR accountability to provide us with the tools to do the job properly?
You say I "refuse to take the blame" - how dare you - I work about as hard as i physically can at work and when I am finished I often go home and hit the books to work harder still to get ahead, partly because I love my job but partly because of a sense of pride and in doing my best for the patients. Do you really think publising a set of arbitary figures is going to spur me on to work harder or better? This is not shelf stacking or producing widgets at a factory.

"The biggest problem the NHS faces is your attitude and lack of professionalism."

No, the biggest problem the NHS faces is people like you who think you have a clue about what it takes to do a job like mine. Your so called "reforms" have so far managed to pay more money into the system with almsot no improvement on outcome - how much more money do you want to throw at it before you realise you are fundamentally wrong?

"Sorry Hawkeye but I pay your salary and I want to know what you do, whether I am getting my money's worth, if you stack up against your peers from a performance standpoint, and if you don't the ability to go to someone who won't mame me or kill me."

Agreed - if you want to know if you are getting your money's worth you can compare my salary to what I would get in the free market - let me assure you I would be earning three times as much for working half as hard. You can by all means assess "how I stack up to my peers" but if you have someone who has spent 20 year in (say) General Surgery, is a Consultant Surgeon, a Fellow of the Royal College and has passed exit exams to get a CCT trying to assess how good he/she is with crude figures is utterly stupid and hrmful because of the reason given above.

"This is not too much to ask really. Rant complains about the opaque nature of politicians all the time. Why should you be any different."

You dont get it. The training and competition to make it to consultant surgeon / physician level in the NHS is such that your ideas are rendered redundant. If NASA train someone up to be an astronaut do you think you are in a better position to judge how "good" they are by looking at how many time they have crashed a plane on training flights?

The hardest working, most talented people I have met have been medics and surgeons. All of them could have earnt multiples of what they do if they hadnt chosen medicine as a career.

So I ask again, what have you ever done in life which gives YOU the right to criticise ME?

OK..my bet is that this troll is RITA PAL.Do I win...

2008-05-11T14:26:00.000+01:00

OK..my bet is that this troll is RITA PAL.

Do I win a prize?

Rob good luck,Just passed clinicals myself :)

2008-05-11T11:04:00.000+01:00

Rob good luck,
Just passed clinicals myself :)

"Bring on the physician assistant (e.g anaesthesia...

2008-05-11T09:18:00.000+01:00

"Bring on the physician assistant (e.g anaesthesia), this will slash the wage bill and give the public the competence it needs and expects"

"I pay your salary and I want to know what you do, whether I am getting my money's worth, if you stack up against your peers from a performance standpoint, and if you don't the ability to go to someone who won't mame me or kill me."

anonymous i fear your comments might be running in diametrically opposed directions - by implenting physicians assistants you will be bringing in people who are under trained, unaccountable and very likely to kill you. do you fancy someone who has studied the huan body for 5 years and then spent 2 years as a junior in the field and only then is allowed to anaesthetise patients with lots of consultant input, working their way up the ranks for 7 or 8 years until they have enough experience to call them self a consult, or do you fancy some fuckwit who has done a 2 year training course and then is just left to get on with it, accountable to no one but some poxy middle manager?

i know which i would reccomend for anyone in my family or one of my patients. for you obviously the choice may be slightly different.

coi - about to take finals

Alternatively, he could be a 15 year old with erec...

2008-05-11T02:17:00.000+01:00

Alternatively, he could be a 15 year old with erectile dysfunction, a low IQ, a drug habit, and nocurnal eneuresis.

If so, he should grow out of it and quit bugging us in the next few months.....

(I wouldn't hold your breath!)

Tollonymous is not mentally ill. Otherwise, this ...

2008-05-11T02:15:00.000+01:00

Tollonymous is not mentally ill. Otherwise, this would just be cruel!

He is personality disordered. I would think Cyclothymic Personality disorder: so he has periods of elation when he is unable to sleep and hits lots of medical blogs repeatedly. This alternates with periods when he feels flat and low, and sleeps much more.

He had an over-bearing mother and a weak father. His parenting was inconsistent: sometimes his mother would dole out arbitrary punishment, other times she would over-indulge him, for the same behaviour.

When 'up' he exaggerates his past acheivements, when he is down he feels very pessimistic for the future (thanfully, we don't see much of him when he is 'down').

He has problems at work because of his mood swings and alternating sleep patterns, which produce variable quality of work and attendance. This leads to frequent changes in his line of work and he moves from place to place a lot. An under-achiever.

He lacks self-confidence but when 'up' overcompensates for this with grandiose ideas.

He is socially isolated, but most likely engages in high-risk sexual activity when 'up' and is likely to have repeated marital failures. This is compounded by frequent outbursts of anger at loved ones and ongoing irritability.

He reacts badly to change, and has a low tolerance for other's views, but he is afraid of authority and overly conformist. He does not 'understand' art.

He is very likely to use 'recreational' drugs.

Hawkeye, yes, I do agree the Calum Carr report was...

2008-05-10T12:42:00.000+01:00

Hawkeye, yes, I do agree the Calum Carr report was a little one sided, but I don't feel it's particularly different from any other blog-they all reflect the opinion of the author and with no right to reply all could be described as one sided.

My point was that this is not an issue about doctors, or that it should not be. Many patients experience major problems in accessing the care they need via the NHS, but the blogosphere allows an opportunity for those not able or willing to distinguish that the problems are about a system not an individual or individual profession to target and vent their frustration, however inappropriately.

In that context the relevance of Calum Carr's experience is simply to illustrate how common these kinds of problems are, but how very devastating to individual lives.

Unfortunately, despite the ever increasing numbers of those blogging in some context about the NHS in their own fields, no-one makes one valid point. Ultimately we're all patients, and that is what matters. I firmly believe that if the medical blogosphere united and acted together the ability that group would have to effect change would be massive. Sadly it's not happening because each group appears to focus on blaming others, which surely must be a gift to politicians.

Bendy Girl

No-one,I see it now, you actually think being on h...

2008-05-10T12:04:00.000+01:00

No-one,
I see it now, you actually think being on here is "keeping them on their toes".

You see yoursefl as keeping people alive that the Rants et al would otherwise kill off?

Do you really think that anything on this blog give an indication of clinical skill?
Your deluded if you think the people here are the ones you need to protect people from.
GO and campaign for people in your local area who have been harmed etc.
Causing a nuisance here is no exaclty making a difference is it?

Nutty - if this is your source for "what's going o...

2008-05-10T09:45:00.000+01:00

Nutty - if this is your source for "what's going on in the service", you have a very warped since of what is going on.

The service does not need me to volunteer, it needs the people working in it to CHANGE and do the right things for the patient and not themselves.

Skepticism of the rantletts is a good thing, it might just keep you alive if you find yourself in need of their services.

The sad thing about this is that if he devoted his...

2008-05-10T00:03:00.000+01:00

The sad thing about this is that if he devoted his time and attention to contributing to local health services he could make a big difference. He could join his local LINk or volunteer in a local hospice or be a patient advocate. But it's just simpler to slag off one part of the system.

I have had both very good and very bad experiences of doctors. I come here because I learn a lot about what is going on in the NHS. I doubt if No one will go away having learnt anything because he is too busy criticising to listen. (But I reserve the right to make critical comments myself within reason.)

"Okay, I can feel the Love now so lets try a poll....

2008-05-09T19:47:00.000+01:00

"Okay, I can feel the Love now so lets try a poll."

Wow! I've seen the light with the politician analogy! How incredibly insightful. I can totally see your point of view now. How could we have been so naive. Thanks for converting me to your way of thinking!

I've no doubt that you're feeling the 'Love' I'm guessing by the use of a capital letter, that this is a euphamism.. are sure you want to be divulging that sort of thing?

1 & 3 would increase my respect and would generate...

2008-05-09T16:51:00.000+01:00

1 & 3 would increase my respect and would generate some sympathy.

2, depends on why.

4& 5, if he is not responsible then fair enough, if he is the education minister/ rubbish minister then he is fair game for abuse.

Okay, I can feel the Love now so lets try a poll.I...

2008-05-09T16:43:00.000+01:00

Okay, I can feel the Love now so lets try a poll.

If a politician went on television and said:

"I can't do this anymore"
"My voters are abusive towards me"
"there is too much red tape in my job and I can't do it properly"
"the reason the rubbish hasn't been picked up is someone else's fault"
"Schools? Not my problem"

Be truthful now gang (hope you don't mind me calling you that, I feel like we have bonded) on a scale of 1 to 10, how much sympathy would you have for him?

Troll

But it is funny :)

2008-05-09T16:33:00.000+01:00

But it is funny :)

Idiot!Ignorant!Shit!Cunt!Bastard!Shit!Fucker!Great...

2008-05-09T16:30:00.000+01:00

Idiot!
Ignorant!
Shit!
Cunt!
Bastard!
Shit!
Fucker!

Great vocabulary ladies and gentleman. I can see that you are the cream of our society.

Jesus are we in trouble!

Suomynona.You are an idiot.You may wish to conside...

2008-05-09T16:24:00.000+01:00

Suomynona.

You are an idiot.

You may wish to consider what happened to Col Nathan R. Jessep
in the film and why that little speech casts you in a very bad albeit very accurate light.

Here that would be a major, the gas passer would h...

2008-05-09T16:00:00.000+01:00

Here that would be a major, the gas passer would have to use his own very special room to put the patient to sleep, how cute (interesting that the rest of the world gave up on anesthesia rooms but we still have them. Little anal retentive fellows? Or maybe it's a continuation of the turf war. Come on! you know, chest crackers don't like and won't work with cardiologists because they are doing cases the cardio thoracic guys think are theirs, so we have extra space in hospitals so they don't have to share, how grown up. Wouldn't be about the money would it?) 14 consultants would have to observe. I would be in hospital for weeks under current LOS conventions. I am sure my vet could reattach! Thank good he had a proper medical education.

troll

Will someone please shoot anonymous or at least cu...

2008-05-09T14:45:00.000+01:00

Will someone please shoot anonymous or at least cut his fingers off. Who has the first free minor op appointment?

Comments on Dr Rant: The Dr Rant Trollonymous Competition

fuck meim amazed that anyone would bother trying t...

mmm interesting looks like there is indeed a "no o...

actually the real "no one" didnt make some of the ...

**TROLL WARNING** The Troll identified as 'ANON' o...

The winner of the Trollonymous Trollathon has now ...

From The definitive guide to Trolls:The Contrarian...

Two other possibilities:No-One may in fact be an '...

Dear Anonymous,Thanks for your reply - I actually ...

OK..my bet is that this troll is RITA PAL.Do I win...

Rob good luck,Just passed clinicals myself :)

"Bring on the physician assistant (e.g anaesthesia...

Alternatively, he could be a 15 year old with erec...

Tollonymous is not mentally ill. Otherwise, this ...

Hawkeye, yes, I do agree the Calum Carr report was...

No-one,I see it now, you actually think being on h...

Nutty - if this is your source for "what's going o...

The sad thing about this is that if he devoted his...

"Okay, I can feel the Love now so lets try a poll....

1 & 3 would increase my respect and would generate...

Okay, I can feel the Love now so lets try a poll.I...

But it is funny :)

Idiot!Ignorant!Shit!Cunt!Bastard!Shit!Fucker!Great...

Suomynona.You are an idiot.You may wish to conside...

Here that would be a major, the gas passer would h...

Will someone please shoot anonymous or at least cu...

TROLL WARNING The Troll identified as 'ANON' o...